In that price range, you would be mad not to add the MSB Premier DAC to your list as well. And this is what separates the very good from the excellent piece of audio equipment. Pass Labs INT-60. Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet >Antipodes K30> Shunyata Omega USB> Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120, Amp& Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 >Aerial 10T, Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra,ShunyataDenali v1 andTyphon power conditioners,Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma power cords, QSA Lanedri GammaRevelationinterconnect,Shunyata SigmaEthernet,MIT Matrix HD60speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels. prefer to keep our test results among ourselves. dCS Bartok>Chord DAVE>MSB discrete discreteR2R R2R DAVE BartokdCSBartok The Discrete DAC, the successor and highly improved replacement to the now-famous Analog DAC is the MSB DAC that everyone has been waiting for. The Discrete is around 11,000 whilst the Select is 120,750 with its power base. I just heard DAVE directly connected to MacBook Pro via USB without any expensive cables, headphone amplifier, power conditioner. It will kick your ass. November 11, 2020 in Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio. Thats not allthe CNC unibody aluminum chassis provides the discrete power supply with optimal thermal performance and an elegant design aesthetic. My friend who owns the Diamond DAC IV prefers the MSB. The MSB Discrete DAC is an American made Digital to Analogue Converter costing 11,000 plus an extra 1650 for the second external power supply. The DACs are individually shielded and thermally-bonded and multiple units are used per channel, which MSB tells us increases performance and lowers output impedance. The Can I ask how you procured all those DACs? Funny how Rob Watts drones on and on about noise modulation, and then we see his product performing like this.. now one might not exactly call this noise modulation, but it definitely something to avoid, especially given the price tag. "Im not sure if there are algorithms that can add high-frequency information that wasnt captured in the original sampled result". The in-house discrete design is then constructed into its own shielded CNC pocket for optimal isolation. Both DACs connected directly to power amp using each DACs volume controle. Once complete there are measurements and functional tests before the final products are inspected, cleaned, and packed up ready to be shipped, but not before a white glove inspection by either Jonathan or Daniel. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. It features the very best conversion technology available, using proprietary techniques never seen before, making DAVE the most advanced DAC/preamp amplifier in the world. The clock can be seen as being the heart of the DAC and once again the clocks are made in-house. Auction bid 7 150 25 . I wish you would have had the Totaldac D1 Seven to try. Thanks guys! I've owned a PS Audio Btw, my MSB friend and I used the internal analog preamp for MSB and built-in digital preamp for DAVE. We can operate our current DAC modules at up to 6 MHz for PCM and up to 50 MHz for DSD. Equipment used: - Roon - 3-in 1-out XLR switchbox - Goldpoint SA2X Attenuator - Benchmark AHB2 Amplifier - Hifiman Susvara headphones (Also used Arya and HD800S but for the most part susvara) Video review of DAVE + Mscaler here: This latter recording gets played to death at shows, but that doesnt detract from it being a very good tune and a very good recording, though I have been known to take the piss a bit when it gets played for the tenth time in a day at audio events. Ok, I looked a prat but it proves that the separate PSUs are actually doing something rather than being there for show, though they do look rather cool in themselves. The Base module is used on the two lower DACs (including this one) and then the Preamp Output Stage for the top two DACs in the range. Best DACs comparison test result [[My Subjective Opinion]] They are excellent pairing. dacs and server competed against much more expensive dacs and servers sound wise What else should one expect? The lo-res display also makes menu ]set-up fiddly because it doesn't have enough space to display words. How does it compare? Almost all gear I hear is pretty good and some are great but the most expensive ones are not universally the best to my ears. As you pursue higher levels of playback, an MSB upgrade path is always available to help drive your own desire for innovation. I say take what everyone post when a grain of salt, because an individual's preference may be different than yours. Chord Dave DAC "Sealed Box Brand New" Never Opened !! Im getting a bit away from the review proper, but Im sure you can see why I have added that little diversion. He liked the Mola Mola Tambaqui over these others listed below. For the most part, I listened to the MSB through our LAB12 and Krell KST100 amps and TotalDAC D100 speakers. Yeah, you and me both- the look I got wasn't as funny as the one I got from the Sennheiser stand when I asked if they had any HD600 or HD650, instead of all those Momentums and so forth, but still. CHORD Dave could be the most expensive deeply design DAC in the world and if you find it not your taste there is the best off the shelf DACs like akm4499 in Topping D90 for 699$ that could be even better than Dave. Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. The DAVE is very resolving, but thinner tonally in comparison to the EMM Labs. And differences at that level can be good. That statement makes sense in an analog paradigm. The Discrete DAC Features - MSB Technology With a better matched preamp presence may be acceptable. ), Chord Hugo 2 Review (Portable DAC & HP Amp), DAC Noise Modulation: Chord DAVE vs Topping DX7 Pro+, Digital To Analog (DAC) Reviews and Discussion, Amplifiers, Phono preamp, and Analog Audio Review. However, to get this level of separation and detail within the soundscape the DAC is clearly having a very important role to play. Powered by Invision Community. Blimey my RME ADI 2 DAC looks to have better performance at a fraction of the cost, /===============================================================/, DACs, Streamers, Servers, Players, Audio Interface, Combination Audio DAC and Headphone Amplifiers. September 6, 2016 in DAC - Digital to Analog Conversion. Only hifi shops and shows hear and there. It's not just a matter of being polite, it's also about acknowledging that what we hear and what we prefer is uncertain and changes; that the comparisons were made at different points in time wherein my system had varying levels of resolution/ noise; the fact that making a change requires greater energy and usually more money than staying with what you have; and that sometimes the differences between components are not significant or actionable. And this level of detail the MSB Discrete brings to the listening experience was carried through everything I listened toand I listened to this DAC a lot, with it being the only thing I used to for a solid two weeks. There is no dark magic involved. I've tried it in my system and I don't like it. The Discrete DAC uses two of these modules per unit. Although I would like to keep this as close to $10-12K as possible. I've had some excellent preamps in my system (Dartzeel, Absolare, Robert Koda, Kondo). The other stand out dacs that we like are the This is a company that is All American and fiercely proud of that fact. Moving away from the actual sound of the music, one of my main takeaways from listening to the Discrete was the sense of timing it brought to music. Going by the performance of the Mola Mola Makua (pre with dac module) it will be extremely good. I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. Compared to some other similarly priced DACs ($10 - $15k MSRP) I prefer the Discrete with 2 Discrete PS. T&A Dac8 (for DSD512) or Lampi Atlantic for any native rate DSD playback. The jump from Six to Seven is rather large. I had the DAVE for 3years, it is an amazing DAC. By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. So I personally prefer to listen to different DACs just like I prefer to listen to analog as well as digital. As a contented Qutest user, I would have hoped for "improved", performance from the Dave. The next module is the display which is a cool and easy-to-read LED that is slaved to the audio clock. It is a manual step which I forgot. I believe it comes down to fake by any means necessary jacket. So I saw the DAC lighting up and it looked fully functional, right down displaying the bit rate etc of the file playing, but no music. definitely up there with the best dacs in the world. I don't think any of us have heard the Dave, and we don't have any interest. To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned If you take a look at their website you will see that the machining shop is a fully equipped facility designed to meet the needs of a company producing high-quality cases in which the electronics will be fitted no off the shelf or cheap bent metal cases here! Equipped with high-visibility and a wide viewing angle, the display is both easy-to-read and stunning, exhibiting our love for intuitive features. 2. Never use!! This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. I thought the DAVE was just as stunning with DSD as PCM. @shkong78 how good is the dave + mscaler vs msb? I'd also look at the Mola-Mola Tambaqui and the new dCS Bartok. I would just add budget and the other components in the system are major factors to consider. I've sometimes heard people say that DAVE is too bright or analytical for them. - MQA decoding. Euphony Summus, EtherRegen, MSB Discrete. The more observant of you will have read this and noticed that there is no mains inlet. At some point you have to be content in this hobby. Tailored for both the transport and the DACs daily use, our remote brings you closer to the music you love. Ultimately, reducing noise in a system or improving room acoustics can have a bigger effect. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material (in part or in full) without express and written permission from this websites author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. I can leave my hand on it as long as I want to. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. that it is difficult to say you have the best in regard to dacs but Rockna is It doesnt get too hot to touch. Digital: Jay's Audio CDT2 MK2 CD transport, Modified MHDT Labs Balanced Pagoda DAC. Anyone make that comparison? The Prime DAC Module. Watts is avidly not reading this in anticipation of the video version he won't watch. But it need good system matching. In comparison to spdif which feels more 3D but relatively smaller sound stage, with better separation, vocals are more focused/accurate, everything sounds more evenly balanced. 2 are upscalers , not upsamplers. As it stands, the Discrete offers a very good solution should you be a music lover that plays only digital files and you can go straight into a power amp. Never say never, but I reckon 99.9% of folk would get to the Discretes level of performance and not be able to justify another 110K to achieve, what I am guessing would be marginal gains though I have not experienced the Select and so cannot say for sure that this would be the case and it may be a total revelation is sonic engineering. But digital, potentially, can change things. Can't beat the form factor of it though, great for off a desk top. I'm doing this off the top of my head. To cut a long story short: A burnt in MSB Analog DAC with Power Base demoed side to side to a burnt in DAVE was no challenge for the MSB. It is a pretty DAC but usability is left behind. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites, Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. With the MSB there has been a great deal of attention paid to ensuring the signal stays as pure as possible and is not affected by other parts of the DAC or outside sources; modular construction, dual power supplies, isolation of USB etc. Ill not get into the whole detail of this here but the MSB website does have an excellent (and interesting) explanation of jitter and why having a very low jitter clock is favourable to having a very accurate clock theres a link at the bottom of this review. Amplification: Cyrus Mono x300Signatures. When connecting to the MScaler, Dual-BNC was used on the chord dacs with shawline digital BNC cables. Different songs will sound better with different sources - Different horses for different courses. Or arm yourself with a nice bottle of red and pay a visit to@Stereophilus. To my ears it makes music sound unnatural. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. The Hugo TT2 is intended to bridge the gap between the range topping DAVE and budget Qutest rack mounted offerings. I agree with what you are saying but "far too often" the But dont take our word for it. You might want to consideradding oneof Chord's Upscalers, either HugoM scaler, or the Blu Mk. However, there is nothing wrong with "taking" recommendations, which help me build a list that I can use to research then find a way to audition my shortlist. digital front ends. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. MSB thrives off the innovation required to meet consumer demands. and build quality is also excellent. Sonically it is very much as its name suggests and converts files faithfully and without loss or (importantly) embellishment. Regardless if the buyer has never auditioned the unit, and found it corresponding to, Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / Empirical Audio reclocking system: Synchro-Mesh Reclocker driven by Dynamo Linear Power Supply, 2 x Reference BNC digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (LIM) DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors, on Sound Anchors Signature stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers / Cables: ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects, ZenWave SMSG speaker cables / Diverse Herbie's Audio Lab footers / Acoustic treatment: Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties (wool, polypropylene basketweave), Sure absolutely agree that paying that much money without auditioning (preferably in my house, with my own equipment, in my room) does not make much sense. Then we have the Integrated Clock module and Im starting to get the whole modular approach to the design of the MSB DAC. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/, Check the true bit-depth of your files and audio engine, Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences, Know your limits (Sound Exposure Safety Chart), Topping DX7 Pro+ vs Chord DAVE measurements (Cosmos ADC) - DAVE is better in some areas (surprise! More to follow. Nothing was amiss. In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. Click here to download your copy, At 11000 plus taxes as tested the Lampizator Big 7 is certainly no budget DAC, but does it deliver on sonic ability? Im participating to both learn and make suggestions where I have experience that may help. The evolution of the original irreverent and irrelevant and non-authoritative site for headphone measurements, i.e. I did have the BADA Ref in my system for a short audition, and the Trinity And CH Precision C1 for a longer stay during a previous iteration of my system. Great Dac but for me a NOS DAC (Metrum Adagio) won the contest over all the others Dacs I have tried so far. The remainder There's 340 pages packed with HiFi Reviews, Industry Interviews and much more. We have what I consider to be a pretty resolving system, but we also listen to music a fair old bit for pure pleasure and so theres a valve amp currently feeding our chosen reference loudspeakers though thats not to say this system isnt highly resolving in its own right. I have heard a lot of top DACs at shows or other systems but not in my own. And the Jeff Rowland Aeris DAC with new PSU. We are It may not display this or other websites correctly. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. Audiogon Discussion Forum will every hear. I can only comment on the Emm labs, if u can get a DA2 I think you will be happy "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky" Ron Resnick How is Chord Dave? | Super Best Audio Friends There is no such thing as a "FPGA DAC"! Check out the awards + accolades. Will do. The MSB Discrete, as I mentioned, came with two power supplies but you can operate it with just one with the supplied doodad. I havent heard the Rockna. CH Precision C1 DAC. Aurender N10 is still not a USB only dedicated streamer so you will not hear what USB audio is fully capable off through Ms/Dave. This is a very odd one to describe but came to the fore on tracks like Pan Eros from World Of Drums and Percussion. The dCS Bartok was also interesting but, based on my research, I kept coming back to Bricasti. This very pleasant sound I was experiencing, it could be argued, was to a large degree down to the choice of amplifier and what that added to the mix, and I do think this is a valid argument. Mola Mola Pre/dac review compared to DAVE dac - Page 2 - DAC - Digital Complete electrical isolation The Merriam-Webster online dictionary tells me that the definition of high-fidelity (HiFi) is the reproduction of an effect (such as sound or an image) that is very faithful to the original and it would seem to be reasonable to assume that this is the goal of audiophiles around the world. When I have done the comparison with other DACs I have had at the same time - Ayre QX5-Twenty, EAR Dac 4, exasound e32 - often the immediate impression is that DAVE/Blu 2 is not quite as good - a bit dryer sounding, not quite as smooth, not as airy or three dimensional And yet, over the longer term, it is deeply satisfying at a musical level in a way that the other DACs are not. Of course your opinion on sound quality is your own, and valid, but to suggest that the reason for the difference is because the Chord is an "FPGA DAC" is technically incorrect. the North American distributors for Rockna so I thought I would jump in on this Others might disagree but these are my findings. This is how MSB describe these modules: Its best to think of our DAC modules as a black box: the modules take the raw digital data in and output a continuous voltage. This is a dealers email comment to me about comparisons he did. However, Id argue that there is sort of two trains of thought on this subject; one where theres absolute fidelity to the source material at all costs, and another that sounds great though to the listener but perhaps not absolutely true to the original source and I dont think its unfair to say that both these positions have their place in the world of playing tunes at home. To me, the instrumental timbre seems more accurate with DAVE than any other DACs I've heard. $16K Signature DAC sound? There hasn't been any direct comparison of them with Select II, Trinity DAC, CH D1/C1, Totaldac D12 etc in Hong Kong yet. I understand that audio stores and distribution companies have the opportunity to A/B a significant amount of equipment. This is the main advantage of DAVE (i.e. There is no such thing as a "FPGA DAC"! I have enjoyed my time with the MSB Discrete DAC a great deal. The headamp is powerful but not involving. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. I own the MSB Select II with the dual powerbases and 33 Femto Clock. Superior conversion begins with clean and stable low-noise power. While it's an easy setup to wrangle at a show, it does seem like it wasn't doing either component any favours! MSB DACs also use a processing chip to handle oversampling and digital filtering (not sure if this chip is an FPGA or other type processing chip, but it is a high speed digital processing chip). There seemed to be a little more separation of instruments in the mix of whatever I was listening to than with the LAB12 DAC and Pre in the signal path and a slightly leaner edge to the music more clearly etched, perhaps? You must log in or register to reply here. Chord DAVE DAC Preamp Amplifier - Moon Audio Strangely, this new review is not displayed when you select the review folder on the homepage. I agree price is necessarily indicative of quality or performance. - Meat Loaf. The best upgrade for Dave easy. Personally, I think that both these standpoints have their merits and its going to be a case of you paying your money and you taking your choice. I'm super happy with my Esoteric N-01, which is a noticeable step up in quality/musicality from the DAVE - as yes the DAVE sounds a bit "thin" (though extraordinarily detailed). Now, this is an important and quite a cool lesson in what is going on with the two PSUs. With two prime DACs, the MSB Discrete yields an unprecedented level of detail that reproduces the musicality, soundstage and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. This gives us lots of headroom for future sample rates and audio formats.. Now to include the HMS. However, there are two inputs for external PSUs and a little doodad/adapter that allows the use of one external PSU. You absolutely can say that you prefer other DAC's to the Berkeley Alpha Reference. sounds just like the Dave. Click to expand. Any MSB fans here ? - Page 3 - DAC - Digital to Analog Conversion And what streamer are you using to feed the DAC? . At MSB, we believe excellence is a promise worth keeping. has 20 hours on it. Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers, A healthy approach to understanding measurements, After being asked for the 308th time, Merv lists top 5 headphones, $1000 to the first to design a headamp using discrete components with better measurements than Magni 3+, http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/chord-dave-29757/#post579518, (You must log in or sign up to reply here.). MSB Discrete DAC | Hifi Pig An exploration of Chord DAVE, MScaler, Qutest, and Holo May, HQPlayer Couldn't agree more. Im sure it does have a flavour of its own, but from my standpoint, it sounds like a very neutral and transparent DAC. Copyright Hifi Pig and Hifi Pig Magazine, Big Pig Media LLP. The world's largest high-end audio community. Focusing on our network renderer and USB input, your audio tech will be on the cutting edge. It's UPDATE VIDEO THREE for the Chord Electronics DAVE DAC REVIEW I have spent a lot more time with the DAVE Dac, still using. By You could try some of the newer dacs that has gotten good reviews. Ps Audio Directstream Dac Vs Auralic Vega Founded in 2004, Games for Change is a 501(c)3 nonprofit that empowers game creators and social innovators to drive real-world impact through games and immersive media Here is the list : Trinity Designs [Trinity DAC] TotalDAC [d1-Six] Aqua Acoustic Quality [Formula xHD] MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option . When you get the chance to hear Chord DAVE, try playing files bit perfect instead of upsampling them to DSD256 with HQPlayer. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. MQA decoding The Chord Qutest DAC has the same DAC architecture and filters as the Chord Hugo 2. After reading that review, and remembering the reverence APL had back in the day, alongside the Stahl Tek and Trinity dacs that were the heavy hitters 10-15 yrs ago, I was just curious as to whether . Chord Dave Replacement. Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. MSBs top-level DAC is 121K and there are other brands out there offering very expensive options, but the truth is that the vast majority of people will never feel the need to spend that kind of money (even if they could) to eek out that last-minute bit of detail. This is because one PSU is supplying juice to modules including the screen and USB input etc but not to the output module. A Chord DAC converts to analog via Chord's "Pulse Array DAC" which is a discrete circuit, similar to the discrete circuit used in the MSB DACs (but not the same). You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. Of the ones you mentioned I'd be most tempted by the Emm Labs DAC 2x though if you can get a used higher-end Esoteric, you should jump on it. I think people buy what they like. The main reason we took on Rockna was because their Guess what I am trying to say is: preamps are important. The USB module is completely electrically isolated and is again a standalone module capable of 32 bit#768kHz, MQA decoding and 8X DSD. The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system.. Playing Gil Scott-Heron and Brian Jacksons Your Daddy Loves You from the Winter in America album gave me the same impression of a reach-out-and-touch soundscape with incredibly well-defined positions in the mix and a whole load of detail the over-driven sound of the electric piano at around a minute forty really stood out as being faithful to the recording; a case of high-fidelity highlighting a low-fidelity artefact? This would help to take your digital playback upa few levels. I like Aqua Formula xHD and Totaldac Six. By While were committed to long lasting products that hold their value, we realize audio systems are always evolving. It is worth every penny. This latter track is a good track for me to play when listening to new kit as it is basically a drum machine and an acid box and this latter did sound just like a 303 there in the room. With the Bartok now quite a few $$$ more, the Tambaqui represents a fantastic price v performance ratio that would be at home in most highly resolving systems. There are so. The modular nature of the Discrete and other MSB DACs is very clever and I assume this goes a good way towards giving it such a neutral and detailed sound, where no one part is interfering with what the other is doing. Just go for an internal Asus card to fit in a PCI slot you should be able to get bit perfect optical output thanks for confirming suitability of current setup. As I listen to this tune a few times it strikes me that the Discrete is just that (discrete), it doesnt seem to add a great deal of itself to the file it is playing. It may not display this or other websites correctly. How r they comparing to the MSB Select 2 and Trinity? That's the negative to going my route I guess. I don't have that kind of money. Founded in 2010 Whats Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. Specifications: Type: Digital to analogue converter with volume control. lastly; what I compare my MSB Select II to every day is my top level vinyl and top level reel to reel tape. what Im saying is that comparing dacs also must take into account of all the interface advantages of each particular dac. Please specify coaxial S/PDiF or optical S/PDiF. personal preference." More sharing . The Pro USB is offered as a stand alone module for users who already have an MSB DAC that is equipped with a Pro ISL input as well as a starter kit with a Pro ISL input and everything you need to get up and running. For the most part, I used this input and for a quick comparison one of the optical inputs.
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